Holy Shenanigans Live at the Wild Goose Festival 2025: Embracing the Sacred Amidst Life's Messy Middle with Natalie Hamrick & Charles Bretan

Join Tara in this episode of Holy Shenanigans, live from the Wild Goose Festival. Guests Charles Bretan and Natalie Hamrick, Ph.D. explore how Psalms, songs, poetry, and people help them navigate life's challenges. Hear touching personal stories, powerful poems, and reflective thoughts that inspire hope, strength, and the recognition of holy moments. Engage with a community that values connection, healing, and spiritual growth.

Listen to Charles Bretan's insightful podcast A Jew and A Gentile walk into a Bar . . . Mitzvah!

Purchase Natalie Hamrick's book here: Cope by Faith: Partnering With God to Get Through and Triumph From the Cancer Experience

Transcript

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S6 E25 Live at the Wild Goose Festival 2025: Embracing the Sacred Amidst Life's Messy Middle with Charles Breton & Natalie Hamrick

 [00:00:00] 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Hello everybody. Um, Welcome to Holy Shenanigans, live at the Wild Goose. Thank you so much for being here with us. I am your muse for this conversation. I am Tara Lamont Eastman. I am a pastor, a podcaster, and a practitioner of holy shenanigans, which is really just about noticing. The way the sacred shows up in everyday life.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: We're recording here, live at Wild Goose Festival in Union Grove, North Carolina at Van Hoy Farms. Let's give it up for the wild goose.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: We hope you're having a wonderful festival. It's been a great time for us to get together and to have conversations. To listen, to [00:01:00] hear music, to engage with art and engage, right? Engage is the theme of the festival this year, and I hope that this conversation that we are engaging in will be something that you can put in your pocket and take with you in the days to come to be a source of encouragement and hope for you.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I also wanna give a shout out to our live studio audience. Yay.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: A little word of some like call and response. So the tagline for HSP is always sacred, never stuffy. So to add your voices to the conversation, if you hear always sacred, what do you say? Never stuffy. Perfect. One more time.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Always sacred. Never. Never stuffy. It's like we've practiced this and we've all just met. It's wonderful. Thank you so much. So to help focus our conversation today, we are gonna be sharing stories how [00:02:00] psalms or songs or poetry or people have helped us to stay engaged in the efforts of love, especially in the messy middle of life.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So this podcast started in 2020 and it was my hope to offer space. And resources that would help people to fill their cup. Initially when we started recording this podcast, we're like, okay, can it be like a five or 10 minute coffee break with a good friend to give people a source of comfort and encouragement?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And I believe that God or the divine shows up in our everyday lives, but sometimes we need some help to notice those always sacred. Never stuffy moments. Perfect. Perfect. So I wanna share a poem with you to start our conversation today by Hawksley Workman, and it is called Songs [00:03:00] of Prayer to help us think about the people, the psalms, and the poems that have supported you in those messy middles.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And the song of Prayer reads this way. The songs of prayer lodge in our mouths. Let us sing through the snow at the dinner table on the rooftops where we dance May those sounds, heal our ears and those distant ears that hear the last bit of that is may those sounds of those songs of prayer heal our ears.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And those distant ears that hear. So if you were to answer the question today, how have people, psalms or poems been a medium that you have noticed God's movement or presence in your life, what would you say?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: To help [00:04:00] us to continue to engage in the question of the day. We have the help of our guests, Charles Breton and Natalie Hamrick, PhD. So, hello. Hello. So Natalie has just released a book recently. And combines her experience in stress and coping with her life, experiences with God to help others on their healing journey to wholeness.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: She is the author of Cope by Faith, partnering with God to get through and triumph from cancer experience that inspires hope, strength, and. And Charles Breton is co-host of a Jew, a Gentile walk into a Bar Mitzvah. and is Wild Goose Cast Festival venue host for the goose cast stage.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So thank you for both being here with us today. Can we give them a welcome and applause?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I have some questions for you both. So tell us [00:05:00] a little bit more about who you are and I'll start with you. 

Natalie Hamrick: Okay. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And why you chose to engage in the wild goose this year. 

Natalie Hamrick: I am Natalie Hamrick and a founder of Healing Journey Ministries of which cope by faith is a part that includes retreats and bible studies designed to combine psychology and God's word to bring people.

Natalie Hamrick: Healing and to facilitate that wholeness. I chose to engage in Wild Goose this year, both as an attendee because it fills my soul to be around like-minded people and to just set aside time to be with God, I'm not always intentional when I'm in that day to day go, go, go. And then also as a co-creator, because it gives me great joy to help people, in their healing journey.

Natalie Hamrick: So I did a, session that involved meditation and art and it just brought me great joy to do that. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. Charles, why are you here at the Wild Goose engaging? 

Charles Breton: Well, my wife and I came to the wild gates for first time in 2017.

Charles Breton: We heard it as [00:06:00] a festival to renew your soul. So we came and realized that we were two Jews among 10,000 Christians and had never been more welcomed. Mm-hmm. And just fell in love with the vibe, the engagement, and just the spirituality of the festival, and been coming ever since. Then became a co-creator when started a podcast with two other people and evolved into now running the Goose cast tent, which keeps me engaged year round with the Goose and with lovely people like Tara, who have these great podcasts.

Charles Breton: Thank you. And I get too engaged with throughout, so that's why I'm here. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wonderful. Thank you both for being here today. Mm-hmm. So. Here's the heart of the question, right? Can you tell us a story about a person, a psalm, or a song, or a poem that has provided you support to navigate the messy middle?

Natalie Hamrick: So I can [00:07:00] definitely think of lots of examples. But one thing that helps me is actually, it's sort of all of the above.

Natalie Hamrick: I love to write and I feel connected to God as I'm journaling, as I'm writing poetry, as I'm writing Bible studies, God often is working in me to teach me something as he's prompting me to write something. So it's that bringing my situation to God and opening my heart and mind for what God wants to say to me.

Natalie Hamrick: And we write collaboratively in my journal. Sometimes I write poetry or like I said, it turns into a Bible study. But of the hardest things that I had to face was when my husband was deployed for a year. He's sitting in the audience there. I love him.

Natalie Hamrick: And it was hard. But not only that, we had a 1-year-old and a 3-year-old who I was solo parenting and we had just moved to a new place, so I didn't really know anybody yet. We had our in-laws, his parents lived half an hour away, but I felt like, you know, imposing on them to ask. And I was a strong, independent [00:08:00] woman.

Natalie Hamrick: I don't need any help. and at the time I was working at Indiana University establishing myself as a faculty member doing research and whatnot. And, I had this pressure of this publish or perish situation. I was trying to be mom and dad to our very young children. just all the things Energizer Bunny, whatever you wanna call it.

Natalie Hamrick: And, I got that. Yeah, and I did not have that. Yes, I fell flat on my face, metaphorically where I got chronic fatigue syndrome, which is a mono essentially that just keeps rearing its ugly head. And what was sort of comical, I guess, in hindsight so I'm a health psychologist in training, and I did a postdoctoral research fellowship at a cancer center.

Natalie Hamrick: And so God said, I would like you to write a Bible study to help people with cancer. And I said, but I've never had cancer. Okay, here we go. But however, all those things, my husband being gone in a, war situation, my being the solo parent doing all of these things. Until I fell [00:09:00] flat on my face and I couldn't do anything for myself, where it took everything I had to shower, take my kids to daycare, come back and sleep the rest of the day until I could pick them up, I was just that depleted.

Natalie Hamrick: And so I had to lean on God for strength. I had to ask others for help 'cause I just couldn't do it. God. Grew me in so many different ways because leading up to that, I just was very empty as a person looking for validation in everything else because I was so desperately empty and um, just grew me to understand that I am lavishly loved unconditionally, and that I was able to forgive myself for those things that I kept apologizing to God for.

Natalie Hamrick: And that God could be trusted in all of this because I felt God's presence walking with me and working in me the entire time, and all of those lessons that I learned were beautifully informing this Bible study because insert. Cancer also uncontrollable.[00:10:00] 

Natalie Hamrick: You have to trust God. God works in your life. There's anger about what's happening and struggles that you need to work through it. wrote itself essentially. And God did that beautiful thing working in my life. I guess through writing I had to grow through those things.

Natalie Hamrick: My kids needed to eat and they needed to feel loved and be sur you know? And, one of the things I would like to share is a poem that I had written Sure. About God's love as I was learning to accept God's love. 'cause I hadn't embraced it yet, so this is called God's love.

Natalie Hamrick: When I'm far away, God faithfully awaits my return. When I am near to God, God clings to me and the fire inside me burns. God inspires me with great love, so strong, and without question. My heart is at peace. I know true joy, and I'm open to God's suggestions. As I lean on God, God builds me up and I soar with wings spread wide.

Natalie Hamrick: I know in God I am safe and God will be my guide. [00:11:00] Thank you.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I'm really glad you picked up that journal. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of the, muse for you. Yes. Right. Perhaps it wasn't just a song or just a poem. But that journal became your channel Yes. To experience that mm-hmm. Support in that very challenging time. Yes, absolutely.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing that story with us. Mm-hmm. Charles, how about you? 

Charles Breton: Okay. That's, whew. That's hard to follow. That's so beautiful. Thank you. The person, the center of my universe of my life is my wife, and this is the ultimate holy shenanigan. She was living in Tucson, Arizona. I was living in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I knew friends at the synagogue I [00:12:00] belonged to that she knew from her time in graduate school in Florida. She was coming to visit them because they just had their first child was the high holiday season, and our friend Doreen said, oh, I want to fix you up with a bunch of guys.

Charles Breton: Our friend Paul said, Doreen, you're not good at this. Oh, but I've fixed up Sony. No, you're not good at this. She had a list of seven people she wanted to Gail to. I was number seven. So at synagogue that morning, our friend Paul introduces me to Gail. 'cause Doreen was parking the car. It's important information.

Charles Breton: Remember that's gonna come back. And they invited me to come to dinner that night with her and with other friends. Well, being a huge I on the Myers-Briggs, I had really peopled a lot during the day and was not planning on doing anything. [00:13:00] I'm laying on my couch, a voice, which was not mine, and not in my head, said, this is the one.

Charles Breton: Hmm. I got up, took a shower, went to dinner. 

Natalie Hamrick: Good job with the shower. Yeah. Oh, oh yeah, 

Charles Breton: definitely.

Charles Breton: Well, you know when you get the call, you don't question it. You gotta be prepared. You gotta be prepared. Get that journal, take that shower.

Charles Breton: And then my friend Paul, arranged for us to be alone. 'Cause I'm clueless. So she said, oh, would you like a back rub? But now realized much later, that was supposed to be my line. She put her hand on my shoulder. I was gone. That was it. Confirmation. So that was in September. I [00:14:00] proposed in March.

Charles Breton: We were married in May. 

Natalie Hamrick: Get her done, 

Charles Breton: get her done. That was 37 years ago. Wow. Congratulations. Because she is my life. You've probably had that experience that you found love and you just cannot believe how much. You love this other person. And yes, every day I'm amazed at my capacity to love. But what is more amazing and at times scary is how much she loves me because we all have that problem with self-love, we're, not really worthy of love, but she.

Charles Breton: Reminds me every single day that I am, and to the extent that I am is [00:15:00] really frightening. It is awe of God. Yeah. Level because that's the source of it. So, coming back to our September story, Paul introduced us, not Doreen. To this day when we post on our Facebook our anniversary, we thank Paul for introducing us.

Charles Breton: After 36 years, Reina's finally stopped trying to take credit for it for one success, but also when we were just engaging with each other and with the other guests at the dinner. I was thinking, and Gail told me years later, she had the same thought and that was, wow. This is someone with whom I could be a good friend.

Charles Breton: I would like to be friends with this person. And that was well before anything else. And so a song, actually, the song of songs, Shir Hashirim, [00:16:00] which you may not know, is probably the greatest example of Persian erotic literature ever written. And I have on our. Website, a blog post called, and God created sex and it was good.

Charles Breton: So you don't have to say, oh no, it's a euphemism. No, it's not metaphor, but there's two lines in it. One that gets used a lot in jewelry for weddings and anniversaries in the Hebrew. It's Ali For you who do not speak Hebrew, that is I'm my beloved and my beloved is mine. That is not the line I quote or have on the bracelet I gave her for our first anniversary.

Charles Breton: It's the line zeh dodi v'zeh rei. This is my beloved and this is my friend. [00:17:00] 'cause she's both of those things. Yeah. So Wow. That, yeah. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So a song from Song of Solomon, and a wonderful story about your spouse. Thank you. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I would like to share a story about a person which connects to a song and a poem that has particularly been helpful to me recently. So I love to tell stories about my Grand Pap and Grand Pap because it was Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and that's what you call your grandfather if your family is from that area.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So my Grand Pap, very charismatic person. Beautiful curly silver hair. He was an electrician by trade for Westinghouse in Pittsburgh, so very. salt of the Earth Fellow. But he also cultivated a garden. And so where they lived on the, [00:18:00] like the northwest side of Pittsburgh, they had their little Cape Cod house where they raised their seven children.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: With only the master bedroom downstairs in the attic for the children. But they had this beautiful cistern extra well outside of the property of the house and two extra city lots, and he turned that into the most lush garden. That you could ever imagine. And so many of my formative memories from childhood would be going and hanging out with my Grand Pap in the garden, pulling carrots up out of the ground, rinsing 'em off, and enjoying them.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wow. But what I didn't know in that experience from my childhood was that my grandfather started that garden out of necessity during the depression. He had to feed his children. And then it [00:19:00] was something that he just never stopped doing up until his eighties before he passed. He continued to grow this garden.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: he never had a truck. He never had an SUV, they didn't have those then but he would fill up that four door sedan to the gills and make his stops through that little neighborhood. in Pittsburgh. Mm-hmm. And now it's so much different. I've actually avoided going and visiting because I feel like I wanna hold on to this picture in my mind of this beautiful garden in the middle of what now is like very big suburban, very expensive property, right?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I still carry within me all of those memories of my grandfather. And one of the things also that I really respected about my grandfather he took wonderful care and loved truly, deeply his wife and his best friend Gladys. 

Speaker 6: [00:20:00] Mm-hmm. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: She developed Parkinson's pretty early in life and he took care of her in that little Cape Cod home forever and ever and ever until she passed.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And a song that he would always sing to her is, I love you, truly, truly dear. You know, so it's a very old song, but I invite you to go look it up on Spotify later and to think about that because that song is something that every time I hear it, I am reminded of his love for his wife, Gladys. His commitment to very hard work and labor as an electrician, taking care and launching his huge family, you know, and all of these very simple everyday ways that he was a man of faith, but he didn't really preach, but he preached with his life, [00:21:00] right?

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Mm-hmm. And so, some years ago, I used to work in media art in a grocery store. In the middle of the night I'd be the person painting signs and working on signs and setting up displays. And in the middle of the night somebody would come back and say, oh, hey, on their break and talk with me.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And they would joke and they would tease me and they would say on the front end, we can hear Eastman laughing all the way from the back of the grocery store. And that is the same laugh of my grandfather. Right. 

Natalie Hamrick: The legacy, 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: you know? And so that is one of those legacies that I carry with me. And he was also really good at just play mm-hmm.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And singing. And I remember walking the little steps around the edge of their, front of their Cape cod, balancing on the bricks. And him, you know, over exaggerating, walking along with me. Like he, had lots of things to do [00:22:00] right. But when I was there, it was like. There was nobody else around in the whole world.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. Made you feel special and important. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. And gave me encouragement to live into my creative self. And he'd like, make up a song. Let's make up a song. Nice. You know? And so honestly, without my Grand Pap, I don't know if I would be the person I am today. 

Speaker 6: Hmm. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And so in times when I'm in a messy middle 

Speaker 6: mm-hmm.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Or I don't know if you know the term, like the voice of the inner critic, right? 

Natalie Hamrick: Mm-hmm. I hear that voice a lot. Yeah. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I, I think that's another example of, a story, a song, a person that I need to recall and hold onto and to live into that. Calling to let the laughter, emanate and echo out into the world and be a place of hope and encouragement and comfort for [00:23:00] myself as well as for others.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I love that. I love that. So, grand Pap, I love you truly, and I still do. I still do. Thank you for sharing that, that's so special. Thank you. So beautiful audience. Does anybody have a story, a song, a poem that they would like to share? We have a little bit of time for you to share. 

Diana Thompson: Hi. I'm Diana Thompson. So the song that comes to my mind is there's a singer I really like.

Diana Thompson: Her name is Carrie Newcomer and she actually lives in southern Indiana. And after the 2016 election she wrote a song called Sanctuary. And of course that was a hard time for a lot of people. But anytime that things are rough and I'm struggling with whatever might be going on in that's a song I turn to again and again, that gives me comfort and helps me remember that there are people around me who will be [00:24:00] sanctuary for me as well as God is our ultimate sanctuary.

Diana Thompson: So, oh, thank you so much, 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Diana. Thank you. I love that song too. I will be your sanctuary. Yes, yes, yes. Awesome. Somebody else. Please share your name. 

Reverend Brother Millard S. Cook: I'm Brother Miller Cook of the community of Francis and Claire. I'm currently an Episcopalian, but I began my life actually in the Blue Ridge Mountains near Boone as a Southern Baptist.

Reverend Brother Millard S. Cook: Wow. And at the age of 17 decided to become Roman Catholic. Well, that was something on Beach Mountain, let me tell you. Yeah, yeah. And a person who was. So wonderful to me with my grandmother, Floyd Ethel Jones story. And she stood by me through the whole thing, loved me, affirmed me. I became a Benedictine monk.

Reverend Brother Millard S. Cook: Wow. And I was in the monastery and she died. And it was so sad to me to lose her. After the funeral, I went back to the monastery and we were praying as we did the Psalms. And of course, you know, you pray [00:25:00] these psalms day after day after day, and I'd prayed you know, these psalms over and over and over again.

Reverend Brother Millard S. Cook: But one day, very soon thereafter, we were praying Psalm 90 and it said 70 is the sum of our years, or 80 if we are strong. Mm. And when I said those words, I felt her presence with me. Mm. Yeah. And still felt the love that she had for me, but yet felt that she was now in God's hands. And it was just such a consoling moment for me, and I've never forgotten it.

Reverend Brother Millard S. Cook: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Thank 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: you so much for sharing. Yeah. 

Charles Breton: I have a similar experience. So my mother was misdiagnosed with Parkinson's. They kept upping her medication. She was having a reaction to it, and basically part by part her brain just shut off all connections to her body.

Charles Breton: So I lost my mother seven years before [00:26:00] she actually died. 

crowd noise: Oh, that's hard. 

Charles Breton: When she passed. My wife Gail, was pregnant with our first child. Now in the Jewish tradition, we name our children for relatives who have passed. So we decided that my wife's my mother's name was Lucille Dorothy, that if we had a daughter, we would name her my mother's Hebrew name, Leia Devora.

Speaker 6: Hmm. 

Charles Breton: Then of course we figured now it's gonna be a boy 'cause we can't come up with a boy's name. Spoiler. He's a boy. He's Lee Daniel as people point out good southern name. But there's also a tradition or superstition in Judaism that when someone passes, they will visit one family member. With whom they have unfinished business.

Speaker 6: Hmm. 

Charles Breton: There's also a tradition that if somebody who's just a real pain in the ass in life, in the afterlife, they become what's known [00:27:00] as a dybbuk because they're so miserable, they don't want anyone else to be happy. So they attach themselves to really happy people and try to make them miserable.

Charles Breton: Hmm. So. During the week of intense mourning in the Shiva period, I'm in bed and I open my eyes and my mother is standing at the foot of the bed and she says, don't worry, I'm not going to try to come back through this child. Hmm.

Charles Breton: That meant so much. Yeah, 

crowd noise: yeah, yeah. '

Charles Breton: cause it's, you know that she wanted me to know that she will look after him a few years later when he was four or five. We had company and we were talking about my mother and this little boy in among all these grownups, pipes up. Oh yes, grandma Lucille is a beautiful lady.

Charles Breton: We're like, really? How do you know that goes? Oh, I've met her. Oh. And then a few years later, [00:28:00] my wife got rear ended in a car accident, and he was in his car seat unharmed, nothing. And so she said, oh, that's so good, your heart. She says, yeah, grandma Lucille protected me. Hmm hmm. So, wow. I thank you.

Charles Breton: Absolutely. What you experienced. Yes. It's real. Hmm. It's just we're not always open to it. Mm-hmm. You one of the things that Tara and I were talking about earlier today is intentionality, living your life intentionally. Mm-hmm. Because all this is all around us all the time.

Charles Breton: We, live in the middle of creation and the author is still here. It's just, we've gotta be open to it. And know it's there and we open ourselves to it when we engage with creation. Martin Buber, one of my favorite philosophers, said that and I have to paraphrase it on the exact quote that we will never know or we cannot, it's impossible for us to know [00:29:00] God, but we can get a good understanding by getting to know one of God's creations, meaning.

crowd noise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 

Charles Breton: One. Another. Yeah. And engaging with each other. And his book, and I, if you haven't read it, I thou, 

Speaker 6: Hmm. 

Charles Breton: Yeah. Which is the outline for how to engage in an authentic relationship with another person where it's not transactional and that you are equals it's I thou, 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Hmm. Thank you. And that's, yeah.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you. Thank you. That's the way to live. So does anybody else have a story they'd like to share or do you have a question as a curious Holy Shena Gator.

Speaker 10: I'm Steve Gambrel 

Speaker 10: and long time ago when I was a young man and my wife had left me I was going to college, but I had just hadn't gone to class or [00:30:00] taken a test to fold out an assignment in a month or two and I was gonna flunk everything and I didn't care 'cause I was just in deep, deep, deep despair.

Speaker 10: And I took my dog a St. Bernard and just played hooky from everything that I wasn't going to anyway, and went to a state park and just walked down this trail wondering what in the world I was gonna do with my life. came around the corner and there was a big flat rock right in the middle of the trail, big like.

Speaker 10: Eight or nine feet across black in north West Virginia and on that rock and swirling around above, it must have been hundreds of butterflies that had just come out of the cocoons. They were still wet, their wings were wet. You could see them glistening and strangely, my dog didn't decide to go chasing through them.

Speaker 10: Just sat down, laid down. And I've gradually inched my way out onto that rock without stepping on any butterflies. and for several moments there, I just stood there with my arms open butterflies landing on me, all around me. I [00:31:00] could feel the wind of it like a stiff breeze like we've got today.

Speaker 10: And that really transformed my life because I was acutely aware. Of the issue of transformation in the New Testament we have a celebration of the transfiguration, but in Greek that word is metamorphosis, which is the same word we use for a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've since learned something very important about that and butterfly, I've always considered my spirit animal since then, and that is that a caterpillar does not become a new and improved caterpillar with wings.

Speaker 10: As my daughter who's a biology major, explained to me the caterpillar in the cocoon literally melts down to liquid. 

Speaker 10: And then rebuilds as an entirely new creature. 

crowd noise: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 10: And that's transformation. 

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 10: And so I just wanna share that story in honor of people around here who have had the courage, not just to try to be a little bit better and a little bit more improved and maybe a kinder and [00:32:00] gentler fundamentalist and maybe reject people that conservative Christianity is rejecting.

Speaker 10: Maybe a little less rudely. People around here at Wild Goose have. Really bought into and, transformed themselves and that took extraordinary courage. I just am so proud to be in this group. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I have a poem I'd like to share with you, and the title itself caught my attention and it's by Ada Limón and it is called Instructions on Not Giving Up. originally was published in poem day on May 15th, 2017 by the Academy of American Poets, but it definitely still. Echoes, and I think this may be a, great thing to also, take in your heart and your pocket as encouragement, like those, butterflies that [00:33:00] continue to fly.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Um, Earlier this morning, Charles and I were talking and this butterfly swooped by us. And what did you say in your tradition that means. 

Charles Breton: What did I, I You said it was 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: like good luck or a blessing. Oh yeah. When a butterfly flaps by you. Well, because 

Charles Breton: anything's we can make anything a blessing.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes. 

Charles Breton: Anything's a sign of good luck. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes. , But 

Charles Breton: it was the fact that we both stopped our conversation. 

Charles Breton: on engagement and paying attention ironically, and just watch that butterfly and just sharing that moment together. Mm-hmm. That was the blessing. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: That was too, it was wonderful. It was wonderful. So I think that this poem, because it connects with nature, will also be an extension of that, so, mm-hmm.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Here is this poem. Instructions on not giving up more than fuchsia funnels. Breaking out of the crab apple tree. More than the neighbors. Almost obscene display of cherry limbs shoving their cotton candied blossoms to the slate sky of spring [00:34:00] rains. It's the greening of the trees that really gets to me when all the shock of white and taffy, the world's bobs and trinkets leave the pavement strewn with a confetti of aftermath.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: The leaves come patient. Plotting a green skin growing over, whatever winter did to us. A return to the strange idea of continuous living despite the mess of us, the hurt, the empty fine. Then I'll take it, the tree seems to say a new slick leaf unfurling, like the fist of an open palm I'll. Take it all.

Natalie Hamrick: It's 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: beautiful. So my friends, I encourage you to take it all right. To notice the [00:35:00] sacred showing up in everyday life because it's always sacred and never, never stuffy, never stuffy. I just wanna give thanks again to the Wild goose, to Charles, to Natalie, our studio audience. Woo-hoo. And Ian Eastman, my spouse for the always wonderful sound production.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you, Ian. I am your holy shenanigans muse. Tara Lamont Eastman. Thank you for joining us for this Wild Goose 2025 episode of Holy Shenanigans Podcast. That surprise, encourage, redirect, and turns life upside down and sometimes creates something totally new. 

Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: All in the name of love. This is an unpredictable and spiritual adventure that is always sacred and never stuffy, never stuffy as you prepare to go on to the next things.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I'd like to offer you a blessing.

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: The Messy Middle is a place where [00:36:00] abundance and need co-exist. The messy middle invites us to move on into the next chapter. Complicated as it might be. The messy middle is a space for both and the messy middle. Calls us through Psalms, poems, people, and more to engage in life for the sake of love, Until next time, as you engage in the next step of your spiritual journey, may you be well. May you be at peace and may you know that you are always, always beloved. Go in peace, my friends. Have a wonderful goose. 

Charles Breton: Amen. 

Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you studio audience. You were the best ever. Woohoo.