Breaking Down Doors: Women's Voices in Creativity with Ruth Hetland & Dawn Trautman of the Created Creative Podcast

Tara has a heartfelt conversation with Dawn Trautman & Ruth Hetland of the Created Creative podcast, as they explore creativity during tumultuous times. They discuss their unique practices, such as car poems and morning pages, and share insights on processing emotions and encouraging creative expression. The dialogue delves into societal challenges, including the undervaluation of women's voices and the need for supportive, nurturing communities. Through personal anecdotes and thoughtful reflections, they inspire listeners to find their creative outlets and connect with others on their journeys.

Transcript

S5 E24 Breaking Down Doors: Women's Voices in Creativity with Ruth Hetland & Dawn Trautman

Tara: [00:00:00] Welcome to Holy Shenanigans. I'm your muse, Tara Lamont Eastman, a pastor, podcaster, and practitioner of Holy Shenanigans. My definition of Holy Shenanigans is the divine showing up in everyday life, especially in ways that change perspectives through experiences of surprise and reorientation. This week for me, Holy Shenanigans showed up in the return of a long loved book on the creative practice of writing, writing down the bones.

In the introduction to Natalie Goldberg's Primer on Writing, she says this about the importance of everyday people [00:01:00] engaging in the practice of writing. Writing is Egalitarian. It cuts across geographic, class, gender, and racial lines. Writing is a uniquely human activity. It might even be built into our DNA.

It should be put forward in the Declaration of Independence, along with other inalienable rights. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and writing. She continues, Writing is inexpensive. All you need is pen, paper, of course a computer if you are so inclined, and the human mind. What are you thinking of, not thinking of?

Writing can give you confidence and can train you to wake up. So what was Goldberg's ultimate hope for her book? [00:02:00] It is her hope that this book is taught in all public and private schools and that students learn how to do a writing practice. So that they can come to know themselves, to feel joy and expression, to trust what they think.

Because once you connect to your mind, you are who you are, and you are free. Once you connect to your mind, you are who you are, and you are free. Writing and other creative practices help us to clear away obstacles. Obstacles that keep us quiet, obstacles that tell us our voice should not speak so loudly.

But I think we should listen to writers like Goldberg, who challenge us to know our mind and to become free and to be [00:03:00] creative. So to help us wrestle with this question of creativity and how to better live into it, our two wonderfully creative colleagues are going to join us today. Dawn Trautman. And Ruth Hetland from the Created Creative Podcast.

You know, I've been thinking a lot about creativity in times of change and I thought, who are the two people that I need to talk to about this?

, that's us. That's us. it's Dawn, it's Ruth.

Tara: Yes. So today for the folks that are going to be listening to this conversation, this is a collaboration of great quality and quantity. I hope.

Dawn Trautman: Can't oversell it. We don't know what's going to happen. 

Tara: So, one of the little holy experiments that I've been doing of late. is to be tinkering with blessings, or if I'm talking about it from church world, or [00:04:00] just little poems about everyday life.

And I've been experimenting in this and, the way I've explained it to friends is I'm trying not to be too precious about it. And to be more in the moment and sharing these blessings and I try to make them several times a week, just the thoughts in my mind. And it's a way for me as a creative person to not lose those little thoughts that are meaningful to me.

Are you familiar with morning pages? 

Dawn Trautman: Yes. 

Ruth Hetland: Yes. 

Tara: It's a different way of doing a morning page, but it's a way for me to kind of like, Share that thought to catalog it in a way and also share it with other people, almost installment. I've started calling them car poems because usually I'm recording them in my car.

Spontaneous. I usually don't write them down. They're just like, Oh, I have this thought. And then it goes to [00:05:00] another thought and I try to make them somewhat rhyming, but maybe more just to have some kind of melodic or some kind of meter to it. So I say all that because this morning I was writing something and I normally don't write them, but today it is written cause we're doing something a little bit different, but I thought maybe this could center our conversation.

Dawn Trautman: Thank you. 

Tara: So here we go, my friends. There's a knock at the door. Who can it be a heralder of hope and possibility? Is it a word of hard times? Don't come around here. No more. Is it a call to new life? What I've been longing for. There is a knock at the door of my heart. What if that dream is a great place to start consider the possible welcome the give an [00:06:00] invitation for joy to become a friend.

To you. There's a knock at the door of my mind, think on what is just, merciful, and kind. The things you give up space and time become sharers of place. The ideas you inhabit can become wands of judgment or grace. There's a knock at the door, who could it be? A herald of hope, a creative spark, a new way forward to what matters?

At heart, there's a knock at the door. Who could it be a call to my spirit, open the door, dear heart. It's time to set yourself free. There is a knock at the door and this time it's me, no more waiting for others to [00:07:00] see the gifts that I have the power to be, I step over the threshold and walk into the world with wonder.

With courage. I am here. I am knocking down. 

Ruth Hetland: Thank you. 

Tara: You're welcome. So there is a scripture that many people are probably familiar that Jesus stands at the door and knocks. That was where my thoughts started with this particular poem blessing. But also I feel like as Jesus stands at the door and knocks, there is also a call for us to step out of our doorways.

And to get spaces and for us to continue that breaking down of doors and building connections in the world. so I offer that to you as this holy experiment that I'm feeling called to in this particular moment. [00:08:00] But I also want to hear from you how has creativity for you, like this practice for me, these car poems.

How, 

how have you engaged? with creativity in times of change.

Ruth Hetland: You know, you brought up the morning pages and that's an easy one for me to talk about because that's been part of my practice for gosh, over 25 years now. I started in seminary, a friend and I, you know, the, the artist's way had just come out very shortly before that. And so we would meet each morning and, , 

talk about our morning pages and just kind of touch base. Most of my life since then I've done morning pages every day. And sometimes I write more, sometimes it's just, you know, a paragraph, but it's very much a practice that helps me understand what.

My mind is actually thinking about because as I'm pouring it all out on the paper, it's like, Oh, this is what's on my mind. And [00:09:00] it's amazing how sometimes you don't really even know the things that are troubling you or what your dreams are until you start pouring out and you see how you're, Repeating yourself each day.

It's like, oh, I guess this is on my mind and my heart a lot. In some ways it's been a catalyst for change because , I can see, oh, I'm writing about this a lot. This is something I need to address in my life. And work on changing and whenever I've pursued that, I feel like it's my intuition speaking to me through that practice of creativity and it never steers me wrong when I listen to it.

But if I don't listen to it, that's when I start to get full of resentment and full of sadness and despair. And so I've just learned, I need to listen to that. That's the wise me that comes through in my creativity. Yeah. 

Tara: That's very helpful. When I started doing these car poems, the voices of critique, oh, this is a silly thing. Why are you, doing this thing and why are you being public about [00:10:00] it? But the internal voice is like, just do it. 

A lot of times poetry is seen as this very far away thing from life and the realities of life.

But for me, it's always been a lifeline to process really deep stuff, but in a way that is approachable. 

Ruth Hetland: Yeah, 

Dawn Trautman: poetry in our culture is often set to music. I would say Taylor Swift is the most prolific poet currently in this country, and she just sets it to music, but she is capturing a certain experience that a lot of people clearly resonate with. 

Ruth Hetland: It's just beautiful. Like it's funny. I was at a meeting the other day and someone was talking about, Taylor Swift and her lyrics and how they resonate with people.

And then another person in the meeting was trying to poo poo it and they like, Oh, you know, just bubble gum, blah, blah. but it's not, it's very beautiful. And yesterday I had to drive up to Grand Forks And I'm listening and it was one of her songs and I'm just weeping.

It's [00:11:00] beautiful, you know, and granted it may not resonate with everybody, but, art is that way, it resonates with some, not with everyone. . 

Dawn Trautman: NPR did a story that it is the first full catalog of growing up female in America. We have never had that. 

Ruth Hetland: I 

Dawn Trautman: mean, NPR does their research, 

Ruth Hetland: you know, so 

Dawn Trautman: many coming of age as a boy and people who write early and then have a long career.

We don't have that from someone who starts writing as a girl in America and continues as a woman. We don't have that. So, do not poo poo it because the female experience is sidelined often in our cultural narrative. We're getting on my soapbox now. 

Ruth Hetland: I love your soapbox. 

Dawn Trautman: So the male experience is supposed to be universal and the female experience is off to the sidelines and people continue to say it's bubblegum, doesn't matter.

She is filling more [00:12:00] stadiums than anyone, more than like Elvis, which it was harder to do then, but bigger than Elvis. 

Tara: Cause I've been a fan of poetry my whole life, Emily Dickinson, this was lifeline for her in so many ways.

 I mean, unfortunately she did not have the same welcome and reception that Taylor Swift now has, but I mean in time, right. But I think that so many women have these creative practices. That have been told, , to be quiet about them or that they're bubble gum or that they're whatever.

Right. I believe there is a call to be bold and break down those doors.

Ruth Hetland: And to speak your truth in it Dawn you know, her book that just came out, it's resonating with a lot of people, you sharing these stories . But I know you struggled a little bit with, , do I tell this?

Do I not tell this? And do you think that comes from our upbringing as women too, trying to [00:13:00] always be nice and whatnot? Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. . 

Dawn Trautman: Yeah. That I'm not supposed to take up so much space with my struggle. 

Ruth Hetland: Mm-Hmm. . 

Dawn Trautman: And I think. It is a story of my father doing something so cataclysmic that we lost our church, our community, we had to move, kind of all the things went away unexpectedly, in one day. And right then, I got the message that my story doesn't matter nearly as much because no one reached out to my brother and I. It was all about what he had done and how do we fix this? And there wasn't support for the rest of us. And so I got a very loud message that my story is not supposed to take up space.

I'm supposed to just figure this out. That's such an extreme example, but even in smaller examples, I'm like, well, I just directed a musical and there was one department just not doing good work. So, you know, they call departments like there's a lighting department, a sound [00:14:00] department, all the props department, a scenic department, and one department was doing very Bad work.

 I was struggling with how many times can I go back and say you need to do it again, because I was just aware of like, I'm telling these men, it's not good enough. And I very much felt like they didn't want to hear it. They wanted to just phone it in and be done. My name is on it as the director.

Ruth Hetland: And, , probably goes without saying, but if you been a male, you would have been seen as just being direct and firm and blah blah blah, but, oh, here's bitchy dawn 

you know. 

Dawn Trautman: Bitchy, bossy, all those things, exactly. Yes. And then, the other way that it's frustrating to me is, That I was the director it was up to me when I'm in the cast and something's not going well And then I speak up it is so lonely because no one backs me up And then the way women are supportive.

Is that like three [00:15:00] hours later? 

Ruth Hetland: Yes, 

Dawn Trautman: find me and say oh my gosh I'm glad you said that I have been struggling and it is so frustrating to me that women won't speak up in the moment. And so then I am labeled as the troublemaker and the only voice that doesn't like the thing. And really, I am speaking for a group that has been trained to be silent.

And I say it nicely, there was a, situation where we were in a show, everyone was sick, we're rehearsing, it was cold. And We kept getting scheduled so early in the morning and there wasn't a systemic reason. We couldn't just rehearse later. Everybody sleep in, everybody come out at a warmer part of the day.

And I said, is there something, I don't know, like what's happening that we're always scheduled at like 9am? Can we come at noon and then go later? And yeah, I was the troublemaker for saying it while all these women who are sick coming up to me saying, Oh, thank God you said that.

I've been so struggling. That's happened [00:16:00] throughout my life. I can tell you examples from college where I said the thing and no one spoke up and then they told me later, but it's so, so lonely to be the one saying it. Yes, so our stories are not supposed to take up space, and even when there is that first person who makes the courageous first, , it's a version of creativity.

Could we restructure these rehearsals? Can we do this differently? Can we think together? There's pushback. Women's ideas, I still feel it. Women's ideas are not supposed to take up space. I'm being bossy or maybe bitchy 

Ruth Hetland: And every time though that people like you will share and say the thing it helps every woman who sees that feel that permission like, oh, yeah, that's the way I can be. I don't have to stuff it down all the time and get an ulcer and let my hair go gray. From holding it all in, you know, it's like. No. 

Dawn Trautman: Clearly I've learned to say it, but it is [00:17:00] still so lonely that no one backs me up in the moment.

Generally. 

Ruth Hetland: Mm hmm. 

Tara: My instinct to reach out to both of you was a way that I was processing that loneliness and seeking out connection in this effort. 

Dawn Trautman: Okay. 

Tara: I'm having a little epiphany just right now. 

Dawn Trautman: Tell us more! 

Tara: In leadership roles in my own experience, there are many times where I will say the thing in a meeting and it won't be heard until a man says it.

Dawn Trautman: Yes. Oh, yeah. 

Tara: I just get this sense. Of making those creative connections with folks with similar ethics. 

Dawn Trautman: Mm-Hmm. 

Tara: , it's such an important thing. It's such a sacred task that I feel a sense of, calling to that's been getting louder. That's part of why. I'm here today with you all. 

Ruth Hetland: I'm so glad, 

Tara: But I also [00:18:00] want other people to 

Ruth Hetland: Mm-Hmm. 

Tara: understand that they are not alone. That there are other people trying to do the thing. Men and women and non-binary folks, right, but there's something about flat systems.

Systems that are not hierarchical, but systems that are more matriarchal. Mm hm. That I think the world desperately needs, 

Ruth Hetland: I'm so glad that you reached out, because it's fun to work with you, , and I know , even Dawn and, and, me, our collaboration, she had her business and I had my business.

And then we just started talking, well, what's something we could work on together. And I know for me, anyway, it's been really rejuvenating to think creatively about a whole different thing and to see what sort of things have come out of that. It's very fun. .

Dawn Trautman: A podcast is a place where we can have the last word.

Ruth Hetland: You 

Dawn Trautman: know, if someone wants to keep interrupting us, I just edit them right over into letting Ruth [00:19:00] finish her sentence and it happens. A lot, especially with men, I'll say so we, edit and split out when people are interrupting us and we could just delete them entirely. We haven't, but we do get the last word.

The podcast space is kind of a safer area 

Ruth Hetland: we definitely lean into women guests. You know, I mean, we've had some very big. Very lovely, evolved men as well, but we definitely have more women. And, I laugh cause sometimes we're like, well, maybe we should have a man on. We haven't had a man on for a while, but we've have more women's voices on our show.

Tara: If you had one word of encouragement. To folks who are, trying to write their morning pages or say in that meeting, Hey, we need to do this in a way that is different. Or, you know, aspiring poets out there, if they want to share What [00:20:00] would you offer to them today? 

Ruth Hetland: , I talk a lot about morning pages because that's been a, way that not only has nurtured me creatively, but it feels like a prayer practice and it's just so life giving to me. And, whatever a person finds to do, I pray that they find something like that, that is something that nurtures their creativity.

It might be morning pages, it might be, , going for a walk and listening to music. I don't know. But to keep trying things and find that thing that feels so life giving that you want to do it every day and it feeds your spirit and soul and makes you want to make things.

Tara: Thank you so much Ruth. How about you Dawn? 

Dawn Trautman: Ruth gives the awesome introvert answer and I'll give you the introvert answer that may or may not be awesome. I would say find your people, that it's, find the person who is prepared to stand up with you in that moment, and or if [00:21:00] it's not appropriate that they're at that meeting, that they are regularly in your life reminding you that your ideas are worthwhile, encouraging you in the hard times, and then allowing you to support them.

That's part of it too, is to be on their journey with them. So, find your people, then. Similar overlap to what you were saying Tara of finding the other people who are having these struggles and being out in the arena with you as Brene Brown says. 

Tara: Yes. It's necessary for us to have soft spaces and.

Embracing people to land and to gather strength so that then we can step across those thresholds with creativity. And I am very grateful for both of you. For taking this time to help me process this a little bit more to think about [00:22:00] those brave spaces that we're all called to abide in, but to remember that we're not alone in those spaces. 

Tara: Thank you, Ruth and Don, for helping us to think a lot more about why creativity matters. I think there are lots of ways that creative form and expression can be channeled, ways for people to get to know themselves as well as a place for them to pursue life and liberty and happiness. Can you recall a time when making something opened a doorway to your own happiness or freedom?

Can you think of a time that you had a deeper sense of awareness of the world around you, all through the making of something? The creative process of making something for me is a well worn path to become more aware, to listen to the quiet murmur of my heart, as well [00:23:00] as to find ways to connect with my For Goldberg, her channel of creativity is writing.

For Dawn, she acts and directs. For Ruth, she writes morning pages. For me, I lean into the general process of making and creating through various mediums. Writing, poetry, music, and making connections. But I wonder, what creative practice are you drawn to? For How are you being called to boldly use your voice?

What can you make today? 

 I am your holy shenanigans muse, Tara Lamont Eastman. [00:24:00] Thank you to Dawn Trautman. And Ruth Hetland from the Created Creative Podcast. for joining us this week at Holy Shenanigans that surprise, encourage, redirect, and turn life upside down, all in the name of love. This is an unpredictable spiritual adventure that is always sacred, but never stuffy. Thanks to Ian Eastman for sound production and editing.

You can help Holy Shenanigans continue by supporting us at www. buymeacoffee. com.

Until next time, may you be well, may you be at peace and know that you are always beloved. And may you also knock down the doors that attempt to block creativity. May you use your voice for freedom, liberty, and your [00:25:00] true happiness.