Embracing Divine Love and Community Connection with Chantal McKinney at the Wild Goose Festival

In this episode of the Holy Shenanigans podcast, host Tara Lamott Eastman speaks from the Wild Goose Festival 2024. She introduces Chantal McKinney, a practitioner focused on reawakening and repairing the awareness of divine love within individuals and communities. Chantal discusses the decline of traditional church structures and the importance of shifting towards a decentralized, community-oriented model. Through sharing her personal journey and work, Chantal emphasizes the need for compassion, relational connections, and the recognition of divine love in everyone and everything. This episode also touches on the importance of nature and the rising divine feminine spirit as a source of hope and healing.

Transcript

S5 E20 Chantal McKinney

Tara: [00:00:00] Welcome to Holy Shenanigans. I'm your muse, Tara Lamont Eastman, pastor, podcaster, and practitioner of Holy Shenanigans. Since September of 2020, I've been sharing stories of sacred everyday experiences here on this podcast. No matter if you've been with us since the beginning or just joining in, I am so happy you are here.

Tara: I invite you to bring along your spiritual and theological questions as well as the sacred experiences that you've experienced too. This episode of Holy Shenanigans was recorded at the Wild Goose Festival this July, where I was introduced to this week's guest, Chantal Morales McKinney. Chantal is a spiritual writer and [00:01:00] speaker who is passionate about reconnecting people with the spirits movement in the world and in their daily lives.

Tara: It's my honor to invite you into this conversation with Chantal. recorded live from Wild Goose 2024. To center our conversation, I thought I would share a thought from the Celtic daily prayer. Show me a cave. Remind me of the past. Embrace my exile. Tell me I am loved at last. Safe in the deepening darkness. Release, uncover a heart that sings, feet planted firmly in the ground, release the nether springs, release the nether springs.

Tara: And that's from Andy Rainey based on [00:02:00] Judges 1, 12 through 15. I bring that to our conversation today because all throughout The event this week is talking about connections and talking about the importance of 

Tara: Communities working together, people working together working through those obstacles that can be in the way of our connections as people.

Tara: And so it reminded me I don't know if you know Connections from BBC. It was this old science y show. I remember years ago geeking out watching this Connections because it was like, how does this become this? Or what does this, you know, Invention have to do with cell phones today, you know, and it was just such an interesting way And it was a lot about science and technology, but it was also about humankind working together and I really Thought that that was an interesting thing and a different way of looking at our spiritual connections But I thought still an important [00:03:00] place for us to start But I wonder Chantelle, if you can tell us more about your work and how connections are important 

Chantal McKinney: to you.

Chantal McKinney: I would be happy to. Connections are so important to me and the work that I'm doing, the spirit led movement. I feel like I'm kind of chasing spirit these days. And there's really two aspects of my work. I even have two websites. I mean, they're, they are super interconnected in the spirit. larger frame of things.

Chantal McKinney: so one of them is my author and speaker website. It's Sean tall McKinney. com and the book that I'm finishing up is about reawakening and repairing the awareness that divine love or the spark of God is within us. My spirit is led these days to And observe the breaking open that is happening on a almost a universal level right now.

Chantal McKinney: I mean, we can observe the way that our church structures are [00:04:00] not working in the ways that they used to and they're breaking open and government is and healthcare and education. And there is this breaking open of the institutions that were created and formed on a foundation of a patriarchal hierarchical society.

Chantal McKinney: And so The book is really a wondering about divine feminine values that are missing on a macro level that we need to return to. So we do have to do that remind me of our past in order for us to move forward and heal. So the book is really about that individual restoration with the spark of God within us and the divine love within us.

Chantal McKinney: And then once we come to that revelation, you cannot help but know that divine love is in our neighbor and divine love is in our community and even in nature. So root thrive sore. com is the work that I do at churches. I work with churches around the country, also judicatories and seminaries, and [00:05:00] it is about restoring and repairing church members connections with their community.

Chantal McKinney: So many churches have become siloed off and much of the reason that mainline churches are in decline is because we have shifted to this model of doing church ministry in the church building rather than being the church, being the love of Christ in our neighborhood. So I offer a lot of training and coaching and consulting centered around decolonized mutual ministry and missional engagement to really repair that divide so that churches can shift to a new understanding of what it looks like to be church today. 

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. Such important, important work. In my work as a pastor I often get a sense of tension and maybe even more than tension sometimes around that intersection between the building and, and the place and actually being.

Tara: Connected in place and with the community that is [00:06:00] surrounding the physical building. 

Chantal McKinney: It's hard to have time. I am so deeply compassionate for ordained clergy working in churches because our structures are not set up to allow clergy to be in the community to the depth that we need to be.

Chantal McKinney: We have a system where being an active church leader looks like church ministry within the church building. And so there's this massive shift that needs to happen. And yet the people in the church are so good and loving and, you know, you can only have compassion and love , for everyone on all sides about this.

Chantal McKinney: I 

Tara: think that's really, really important point in this and any kind of transition or change is that if you can start with compassion, right. For sure. And also stay energized. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, again, it's not an either or. 

Chantal McKinney: Yes. It's 

Tara: both and. 

Chantal McKinney: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. , and to stay energized, we have to kind of slow down and reassess, well, what is it that needs to be let go of?

Chantal McKinney: So , what is it of our structures or what is it that we're doing that we can gently let go of in order to [00:07:00] lean into a more relational, less programmed way of being 

Tara: Church? If you could, If you were able to give like a suggestion, I know, and it's hard to not know context, but a general suggestion for churches that are saying, okay, we know we need to pivot.

Tara: Yeah. in your expertise, what would you say? 

Chantal McKinney: When I'm working with churches, I often start with, you know, what does it look like to sit around in small groups or have some participatory Bible discussions lay led police around Mark six Jesus sending out of the two and to kind of ask questions of what was Jesus doing?

Chantal McKinney: How was he empowering the disciples? What were the disciples doing? , what was their purpose? What was Jesus's purpose? , what does that look like for us today? And then begin wondering what, if Jesus were physically alive today who would he align himself with in our communities? , how would he spend his time?

Chantal McKinney: Right? What does that look like? And then what [00:08:00] can we do? , what does that look like for us? And what is the unique identity and blessing of our faith community? What is the way that we are connected to who Jesus was? And then how can we also be in solidarity and deeply be in a place of compassion with our community?

Chantal McKinney: Alongside them and with them, not two and four. You know, we have to kind of decolonize our outreach and get back to relationships. Yeah. I think there's beautiful scriptural examples that we can just begin with, opening the Bible, and reading, and having some discussions, and then making baby steps, right?

Chantal McKinney: And praying for God's guidance 

Tara: all along the way. 

Chantal McKinney: Yeah. 

Tara: That's really helpful. Yeah. Cause sometimes finding a resource or finding a guide in that process can be a challenge for clergy as well as for parishioners. Absolutely. Absolutely. But to just point to Mark 6 and be like, Hey, let's start there.

Tara: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's a beautiful example. 

Chantal McKinney: Yes. And I love, I so love, there's never been a church I haven't loved working with. It's a beautiful journey to watch the passion [00:09:00] when churches begin to make that shift and make those connections. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. 

Tara: So I'm curious why do you think connections?

Tara: I mean, you've spoken to this a little bit, but why do you think connections are so important 

Chantal McKinney: I'll tell you why, my fundamental belief is that the spark of God, you know, , in the Bible, it says Christ abides in you as a father abides in me, I abide in you abide in my love.

Chantal McKinney: When we settle in with the revelatory awareness, that Christ abides in us. , it is fundamentally revolutionary. allows us to love all of ourselves to do the shadow work and to be at peace with the parts of us that wounded others and wounds others. And when we take the time to do the healing and the self reflection and to come to that place of Christ abides in us, then we cannot help but get to the place of, Oh my goodness, that means Christ abides in you.

Chantal McKinney: And when the Christ that abides in me connects and loves the Christ that abides in [00:10:00] you, then kingdom of God stuff happens, reign of love stuff happens. When we do that on a communal level that's when the reign of Christ comes into fruition. When we live into a partnership with nature where we understand that we're a part of nature, not a part, but part of participatory and that God's love is in all of these sentient beings in the animal kingdom and the earth mother and that we can learn from nature and heal from nature and that we can also connect with divine love in nature, this is how The revolution that we long for starts.

Chantal McKinney: It does not start by silos. It doesn't start by the me, me, me culture that we have. It starts by the deep awareness that we can hold hands in this. And all of that starts with that deep awareness that Christ abides in me and Christ abides in you. I am not a fan of when churches criticize people doing self care, you know, oh, that's navel [00:11:00] gazing.

Chantal McKinney: And I, don't abide by that because I think we do need to take time to deeply love ourselves , and when we do that, that we can also have compassion on our neighbors. So, 

Tara: It's the saying, you know, you have to put on your oxygen mask. Absolutely. Right. That's right.

Tara: That's right. Go and help somebody else. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for that. Would you have a story of the term I like to use is a holy shenanigan. You know, God or spirit showing up in a way that surprises you or takes you off guard. Yeah, 

Chantal McKinney: The last time I was in parish ministry, I was a church planter of an Episcopal Lutheran Church plant in Southside Winston Salem.

Chantal McKinney: It was multicultural and bi denominational and a scrappy, just beautiful, lower income neighborhood. And the challenge before me was, can I spend more time in the community than behind my computer? I was really fed up with how my soul felt anemic when I was focusing on answering emails and doing more of the Paperwork [00:12:00] that comes with leading a church, and I desperately wanted to listen to And I did that for a few years before a church plan started.

Chantal McKinney: Literally was a street missionary. It fundamentally exploded my concept of how God works. I had had blinders on it as a parish priest and was so used to God only working in the church. And to spend most of my time in the street, With people that were not going to church, but to listen, , you could not help but watch the way the spirit was already moving in the neighborhood just fine without the church.

Chantal McKinney: And so it caused me to like lean back and listen and say, Oh man, I want to partner with them. I don't need to tell them what to do. I don't need to save them, but maybe I need to be saved by this more expanded notion of how the spirit moves. So that was one. And just like the blessing of, being able to start a church with the community and not for them.

Chantal McKinney: It was just raw and beautiful and hard and it expanded my heart. So that connection just [00:13:00] changed my life and got me on the path to want to support churches on that journey? And then the other thing is , I now I'm in a place where I experienced God so beautifully in nature and It is my number one sanctuary these days.

Chantal McKinney: And in the same way that you know, a preacher goes to the lectionary and then is moved by the spirit to preach and is connected to current events. I find that when I am immersed in nature and align with the divine love in nature, I can receive messages and guidance from God just by, understanding and being a part of the divine love and all of earth.

Chantal McKinney: And that has changed my awareness too. And that is kind of. precipitated the book. So both of those are beautiful 

Tara: for me. Yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you so much. Is there anything that we haven't discussed that you really feel is important to share with the folks that are listening today?

Chantal McKinney: , three day retreat in the woods in a few days and [00:14:00] whenever I really immerse myself in the woods with the Spirit of listening to God I've been doing this for a few years now as I'm writing my book and I'll tell you a message That's been coming to me for some time, which is that I mean gosh, this might blow some people away But what I am coming to believe is that the divine feminine spirit is rising and that it's been rising for years very quietly and in circles of people and individuals, but that we're starting to see the iceberg.

Chantal McKinney: So a message I would give would be a message of hope and would be to say, if you're open to such a revelation, when we watch the news, when we watch current events and we see We see the hatred, we see the dichotomies, we see the explosion of the systems that have been created on the back of toxic patriarchy.

Chantal McKinney: Imagine that this is like pus coming up from a wound and it has to air out. So pay attention to your energy as you observe it and keep yourself [00:15:00] rooted in the love of God. It's critical that we do that as people that are here to heal and repair. But we are only seeing the tip, even here at wild goose festival, all of these people that are just so beautifully representing the fringes of our faith and are here to find wholeness and healing in a faith community that they may not be able to get at home or that there, that is an expression of the divine mother that is here to heal and is here to say, what toxic patriarchy deems as not good enough or as sinful.

Chantal McKinney: I love it. I love you. You are beloved as you are, all of you, even your shadow side, even your wounds and your woundedness and that, wholesomeness and that unitive thinking, I believe is that we're on a path to that. And 

Tara: for me, that's very hopeful. It is. It is. Yesterday when I was recording a podcast here at the Goose Cast , before everybody was coming, you know, every time you present or every time you always get those butterflies.

Tara: Yeah. Right. Yeah. [00:16:00] And you don't know, are people going to show? Are they going to, are they going to be here? And like, one by one, all of these women that I've been connected with in the last several years, they all showed up and it was this, epiphany where I was like, Oh, like the women. Are coming. Yeah, but I feel like there's something more in that than just the women showing up.

Tara: Well, it's that 

Chantal McKinney: it's time that we are more than second class citizens in our own faith. It's time. It's time and it's time that the women's gifts of intuition and deep compassion. It's time that our leadership is accepted and revered and honored in a way that has not been for 

Tara: a long, 

Chantal McKinney: long time. But I do think that's part of the return.

Chantal McKinney: healing that's happened is that connection of going deep into our ancestral past. Thank you for that. Thank you. 

Tara: Before we wrap up can you say again where people can find you? 

Chantal McKinney: [00:17:00] Yes. You can find me at Chantal McKinney. com. It's C H A N T A L McKinney. com and, or, and, or Root McKinney.

Chantal McKinney: Thrive sore s o a r dot com. And so both of those websites represent the work that I'm doing in the world and would love to partner with anyone. He's so moved. 

Tara: Wonderful. So there is a song by Coco Love Alcorn and I keep coming back to it and it is give me roots. Deep roots so that I can fly. Yes, exactly.

Tara: And so I, give that to you as a blessing for your work. Yes, thank you. That you are continuing in the world and you said you had a blessing that you would like to offer. I 

Chantal McKinney: do. Thank you. I wrote this just before our time together. I offer the blessing of a mirror that when you look deeply in your own eyes, you know of your inherent belovedness, that you see the spark of divine love in you.

Chantal McKinney: And then may you be blessed to discover divine love in your neighbors and in your [00:18:00] community. May you listen with openness to how the spirit is already moving and partner with the current of the spirit all around. May you feel her breeze. May you be blessed and healed by divine love found in our earth mother.

Chantal McKinney: May the rustling of leaves and the flow of water and the song of the hawk bless your soul and bring us back to the eternal truth. that the divine love within all of creation connects us all. 

Tara: May we all be connected in , that faith, that hope, that love and that divine feminine spirit. I'm grateful to meet you today, Chantal.

Tara: Such a blessing to meet you as well. Thank you. And for all of you who have been with us on this Holy Shenanigans journey that is always sacred and never stuffy, may this journey open your heart and your life in surprising ways. And that is to love. Until next time, may you be well, may you be at peace, and may you know that you are always beloved. [00:19:00] I am your Holy Shenanigans Muse. Tara Lamond Eastman. Thank you for joining us this week for holy shenanigans that surprise, encourage, redirect, and turn life upside down, all in the name of love. This is an unpredictable spiritual adventure that is always sacred, but never stuffy. Thanks to the Wild Goose for the opportunity to be part of their podcast team and to Ian Eastman for sound production and editing